Ümit Özdağ: Syrian refugees pose 'existential' threat to Turkey

The integration of 13 million individuals into a nation's national identity is an immensely challenging and impractical task. Within the Victory Party, we believe that Syrians and Afghans are not enemies; rather, we consider ourselves friends of the Syrian people and advocate for the unity of Syrian territories.

We recognise that the division of Syria could lead to complex geopolitical issues and potential problems for Turkey. Similar to the situation in Iraq, where the Kurds established Kurdistan in the northwest after the civil war, the Kurdish population in Syria is now seeking to create a second Kurdistan in the northern part of the country, known as Greater Kurdistan.

Northern Syria has witnessed instances of ethnic cleansing, where the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) forcibly displaced Arabs, Turkmens, and opposing Kurds from their villages, driving them to seek refuge in Turkey.

The Victory Party firmly stands in support of maintaining the unity of Syrian territories, and our goal is to facilitate the voluntary repatriation of Syrians to their homeland. We reject any approach involving coercion or force, similar to the methods used by Joseph Stalin.

Instead, we advocate for a peaceful resolution through engagement with the Syrian regime. We aim to request Mr. Bashar al-Assad's cooperation in accepting a process of supervision by the United Nations.

In Article 3 of your agreement with the opposition presidential candidate Kılıçdaroğlu over the second round of the elections, you stated that you will send Syrians back to their country. What is the detailed plan for their repatriation?

As part of the Astana process, Syria, Iran, and Turkey have signed an agreement that allows all Syrians living in Turkey to return to their country whenever they are able to do so.

We, the Victory Party, fully support the Astana agreement and intend to visit Mr. Bashar al-Assad to inform him of our commitment to repatriate Syrians back to their homeland within a year. Our priority is to ensure their safe return and protect them from any potential human rights violations.

This is beneficial for the Syrian regime. Recognising the importance of preserving human rights, we believe it is essential to establish a monitoring process under the framework of human rights. Turkey will actively participate in this process, and we will also request Russia's involvement.

Syria can invite some European Union countries to join the monitoring process for a duration of three years. Our collective aim is to safeguard the human rights of Syrian refugees upon their return to Syria.

After that, we will return to Turkey and engage with the Syrian residents there. We will inform them about the conclusion of the civil war in Syria and stress the significance of their return to their country of origin.

We will clarify that the financial, healthcare, and social support they have been receiving will cease as part of the repatriation process. We will emphasise that this will be their last year in Turkey and that we will provide the necessary assistance to ensure a smooth and safe return within the framework of international law.

Are you prepared to go to Damascus to meet with al-Assad to discuss the repatriation of Syrians?

Yes. After all, they are the legitimate government in Syria.

Have you not recognised the legitimacy of the government so far?

Once we are in government, we will be the legitimate authority in Turkey, and we will not be concerned with the position of the government of the Justice and Development Party.

You were born in Tokyo, Japan, studied in Munich, Germany, and worked as a teacher in America. You are a global citizen, but now you're demanding the expulsion of immigrants from your country. How so?

As the only Turkish person born in Japan, I can't help but wonder how the situation would be different if a million Turks were born there.

Surely, the Japanese people would have something to say about it. My birth in Japan was due to my father's role as a Turkish diplomat, leaving me with no other option but to be born there. Despite my global experiences, my heart remains deeply connected to my homeland, Turkey. It's essential to clarify that my beliefs are not against Syrian or Arab culture, and I bear no ill feelings toward Arabs.

I hold great appreciation and respect for Arab culture, but I do take issue with the treatment of Syrians as a mass in other countries. My stance is firmly in support of the unity of Syrian territories and advocating for the right of Syrians to live in their homeland.

Considered a true friend to Syrians both in Syria and in Turkey, I am actively working towards facilitating their safe return to their country and to the villages and cities of their ancestors. This, I believe, will effectively address the refugee situation in Turkey.

I must emphasise that my concern is not aimed at individual Syrians, including professionals like Syrian professors who are welcome to contribute to Turkish universities. Rather, I am addressing the challenges posed by the overwhelming number of refugees, which can be difficult to manage. Such a situation is simply unacceptable.

It's evident that some European countries have taken measures to control and restrict the flow of refugees, including the setup of a border barrier between Turkey and Greece.

Moreover, there have been considerations of using force, including the possibility of shooting Syrian refugees attempting to cross borders from Belarus. While I believe that every nation has the right to defend its homeland, it is crucial for us to find a balanced approach in addressing the flow of refugees in our own country as well.

Are you aware of the agreement between Rwanda and Britain? What is your opinion about that?

Indeed, there have been reports about Britain considering sending refugees to Rwanda. And for the Europeans, Turkey is Rwanda, as the European countries have been returning refugees to Turkey under the 2013 agreement.

Is Turkey the European Rwanda?

Yes, this should be the most important point. Turkey is the European Rwanda.

Why is that?

Because of the mismanagement of the Justice and Development Party government and its ideological stance. The Muslim Brotherhood ideology has, unfortunately, had a significant role in Turkey's foreign policy in the past decade.

For instance, Turkey has maintained positive relations with Egypt and Saudi Arabia. I support President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi in Egypt, who is opposed by the Muslim Brotherhood. However, it is essential to respect that Egyptian affairs are internal matters.

You signed an agreement with Kılıçdaroğlu in the second round, but you lost.

If we had won the elections, I would have visited Damascus and met with Mr. al-Assad to collaborate on a comprehensive and significant process to repatriate millions of Syrians back to their homeland within a year.

What would you give him in return?

The unity of Syrian territories.

Would you withdraw the Turkish army from Syria?

Yes.

Right away?

Syria belongs to the Syrians.

The current Turkish government under Erdoğan has a plan to repatriate Syrian refugees, and it is building housing units in northern Syria. What is your opinion?

It is not a serious plan.

Why is that?

They do not have a genuine desire to repatriate Syrians to their homeland.

As I previously mentioned, there are officially five million Syrian refugees in Turkey, and the Turkish government has plans to establish housing units with Qatar to repatriate one million Syrians. But what about the other four million?

They say it is just the beginning

They do not say that.

Our opposition to the plan stems from the belief that we do not possess the right to establish housing units in another country. Syria is a separate and sovereign nation; how can we go beyond its borders to establish housing units there?

Establishing housing units in another country goes against the agreement made between Russia, Turkey, and Iran in the Astana process.

You mentioned geopolitics. The Turkish government is not planning on withdrawing its army from Syrian until the US, which supports the Kurds in Syria, withdraws its army. And you also said you oppose the establishment of Kurdistan in Syria and Iraq.

Firstly, it is essential to clarify that it is not our responsibility, nor is it the responsibility of the Turkish army, to defend Syrian territory; that duty lies with the Syrian army.

As for the current military positions, the Turkish army is mainly positioned in northwestern Syria, while the Kurdish People's Protection Units are situated in northeastern Syria – as depicted on a map of Syria hanging on a wall in the office.

Meanwhile, it is worth noting that Turkey hosts millions of refugees who have fled the conflict in Syria, scattered throughout the country.

How would you implement the plan practically?

Our plan involves repatriating the refugees to Syria in tandem with the withdrawal of Turkish forces from the region.

A parallel process?

"Yes, it's a parallel process involving the repatriation of refugees and the withdrawal of Turkish forces from Syria. The Syrian army would be deployed in the areas where the Turkish army was present and confront the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). We would support the Syrian army against the PKK.

Do you support providing military support to the Syrian army?

The Syrian army doesn't need our support, but we are ready to provide it with support anyway.

Do the Turkish people support your stance?

Yes, I have the support of the people, the Turkish army, the Turkish intelligence, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs because they recognise that the refugee situation poses an existential threat to Turkey."

According to some analysts, you are labelled as a populist leader who appeals to the sentiment of social media activists, and your Twitter following stands at approximately two and a half million.

I will not dignify these baseless accusations with a response.

Our focus remains on addressing critical issues such as the presence of 13 million refugees in Turkey, the economic crisis, and the existential threat our country is facing.

And to those stupid leftists and secularists accusing me of being a populist, I would tell them what we usually say in Turkey: 'Go to Hell!'

Are you saying that refugees pose an existential threat?

They certainly pose an existential issue for Turkey because if Syrians and Afghans continued to stay in Turkey, what would the population structure in Turkey be like 20 years from now? There would be more than 20 million Syrians in Turkey.

The situation would lead to a Lebanonisation (referring to the situation in Lebanon) of the situation between Arabs and Turks, particularly, between Syrians and Turks.

 Are you saying that a civil war might occur 20 years from now?

Definitely, there would be a Syrian-Turkish civil war 20 years from now.

But most Syrians are Muslims and part of the Islamic-Turkish culture as well.

Indeed, we live in a Turkish national nation, not an Islamic nation.

While sharing the same religion can be a unifying factor for some, it alone is not sufficient to bind a diverse nation together. History has shown that the creation and maintenance of a state require more than just common religious and linguistic ties.

A pertinent example is the Arab countries, where most nations speak Arabic and follow Islam. Despite these shared characteristics, there isn't a unified Arab state. Even attempts at unity, such as the short-lived union between Syria and Egypt from 1958 to 1961, ultimately proved challenging to sustain over the long term.

What is the foundation for your belief in the nation-state?

It is based on culture. Arab culture is different from Turkish culture. Religion is an important part, but it's not enough. Syrians have their own homeland, and Turks have their own homeland.

If a Syrian person lives in Turkey for decades and assimilates into Turkish culture, would you consider them Turkish?

It would be possible if we were talking about one person only. However, if the number of Syrians in Turkey reached seven million, then the possibility of successful integration would become impractical.

Isn't obtaining Turkish citizenship and a Turkish passport enough?

Certainly not enough.

Have you managed to secure any seats in the parliament?

No, we haven't.

Why haven't you secured any seats in the parliament despite having such support on social media?

The primary focus of the last election was the polarisation between those who oppose and those who support President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. The repatriation of refugees, though important, took a backseat to the central issue of determining the country's political direction and Erdoğan's position in power.

Read more: Turks vote in crucial and symbolic election

Approximately 85% of the voters expressed their favour for the idea of repatriating refugees; however, it was not an urgent matter for them during that election as the overarching theme revolved around the political future of President Erdoğan.

He managed to make the elections revolve around himself, and unfortunately, the opposition couldn't effectively counter it.

Yes, that's true. He succeeded in making the elections about himself, and the opposition's efforts fell short.

We faced challenges as the opposition, such as limited media support and restrictions imposed on us. I was allowed to participate in just one programme in a span of two months.

Additionally, there was a lack of sufficient financial support for our campaign. Consequently, our primary means of communication were limited to social media platforms.

There are some who speculate that Turkey is entering a new era characterised by "Erdoganism," akin to the previous era of "Ataturkism."

Read more: Turkey's influential 'Erdoğanism' is not about empire building

I personally disagree with that notion. I anticipate that within the next 18 months, there will be new presidential elections.

18 months!?

Yes, I believe that Erdoğan will step down from the presidency and endorse a young candidate with whom he shares a close bond in the forthcoming presidential elections.

Do you mean Hakan Fidan?

No, not Fidan. The candidate will be someone even closer to Erdoğan than Hakan Fidan.

Do you mean his son-in-law?

Erdoğan will not be able to govern Turkey in the next five years. The country is currently facing a genuine economic crisis, and Erdoğan is unlikely to resolve the issue.

While he might temporarily postpone the crisis for a few months, ultimately, it will impact those who supported him. If we were to discuss the concept of Erdoganism, it appears to be approaching its end.

Do you expect early presidential elections?

I am preparing for the upcoming elections, and I expect them to take place within 18 to 24 months. I believe Erdoğan will not serve his full five-year term, and there will be early presidential elections.

Are you preparing for it?

Yes, I will run for the presidency in the upcoming presidential elections.

Why? Is it because you regret choosing Kılıçdaroğlu as the opposition's candidate?

I am not dwelling on the past; our conversation revolves around the future. My intention is to run for the presidency in the upcoming elections. This serves as my definitive response to your last question.