A former Israeli leader who was close to brokering peace between the Israelis and Palestinians, Ehud Olmert has a lot to say.
Speaking to Al Majalla in his office, Olmert talks about the aftermath of the 7 October attacks, Israel’s declaration of war, the extreme danger posed by the government’s far-right ministers, the aimless war in Gaza, and the lack of any political horizon for the future generations.
“What (Itamar) Ben Gvir and (Bezalel) Smotritch have in mind is Armageddon,” he says, referring respectively to the ministers of national security and finance.
A vocal critic of Benjamin Netanyahu's government, Olmert believes that the incumbent premier has leapt into the dark and that his allies are shaking the Middle East to its foundations.
“He (Netanyahu) needs to be fired as soon as possible. We need to know what the endgame is for this war and what the vision is that Israel may have about the future.”
Olmert, who served as prime minister of Israel from 2006-09, says the Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank need a “political horizon”, even though the 7 October attacks have made it harder for Israelis to accept a Palestinian state.
“We have to rebuild the idea because we don’t want this young generation, which includes my grandchildren, to think that there can only be a future of wars.”
Here is the transcript in full:
Is Gaza the ultimate goal of this Israeli government? I mean, is Israel doing what it’s doing now for several months just to destroy Hamas?
I wish I could tell you what the Israeli government’s ultimate goal is. I don’t know. The real problem is that the government doesn’t know!
The war started as a natural, spontaneous, inevitable reaction to the terrible massacre on 7 October against Israeli civilians. You can argue about the shape of the reaction, the extent of it, and the intensity of it.
There can be different opinions, but I doubt that any reasonable person in the world does not understand what caused Israel to react. Israelis lost their lives in the most brutal manner. I mean, that cannot be forgotten and will not be forgiven. So, we had to react.
But what is the endgame? What is Israel's vision for the future? I entirely subscribe, by the way, to the desire and wish to destroy the military power of Hamas so they cannot dominate Gaza any further. Still, we need to provide a political reason, and this government is unable and unwilling to do so.
They may have a broader goal. I mean, why are they so determined to continue with a war whose main objective proved to be unrealistic?
Because it’s a cliché now that Hamas is an ideology. You might be able to destroy Hamas militarily, but you won’t destroy Hamas as an ideology...
There are two different ways to interpret it.
One is to say that we need to destroy the commanders of Hamas, and that’s why we need to continue for as long as it takes. The existence of a Jihadist military power such as Hamas will cause a repetition of what we experienced, and this is not something that we can afford.
The other way is to answer the question: For how long? How much longer do you need to eradicate the military power of Hamas and then do something that will create a different process?
The Israeli government doesn’t have an answer to this because there can be no answer because you can’t completely destroy Hamas because it is, as you correctly say, an idea, an ideology.
There will always be younger Palestinians who shoot and terrorise unless there is a political direction or strategy to offer the 6-7 million Palestinians a political horizon of some sort that will help create new momentum. This is what the Israeli government is not prepared to do.
Nor are the Palestinians, by the way. They complain, and they have good reason to, because of the terrible and miserable disaster that they are suffering now as a result of the Israeli counter-offensive, but they cannot deny that this began with them on 7 October.
Those who started it knew there would be a real reaction, that Palestinians would suffer from it, and that many would be killed as a result. So, it’s more complex than just looking for excuses to attack the Israeli counter-offensive without assuming any kind of responsibility for starting it.
While we had to retaliate, respond, and take countermeasures, we also had to provide a political horizon that could become the basis of a positive development. But we don’t. We don’t because the Prime Minister of Israel doesn’t want a political solution... I have this political war with him because of this.
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Unfortunately, this is the almost inevitable interpretation of what he said. He needs to be fired as soon as possible for this and other reasons.
I am against the Israeli government because it doesn’t want to find a solution. I would have listened had they come up with a political solution that does not imply endless occupation of the territories.
If they had a solution—let’s say, for instance, that the West Bank is to be governed by an Arab consortium of Egypt, Jordan, the Saudis, Emiratis, and Bahrain, with Israel no longer the occupier—I may disagree, but at least I’d listen to it because it at least changes what we’ve practised for 55 years. What Netanyahu says means only one thing: occupation forever.
Denying the Palestinians the right to self-determination, limiting their freedom of movement, their freedom of speech, their right to participate in elections or exercise their political rights. I disagree with this. I’m against it. I’ll fight against it with all my power, with all the people I can mobilise to oppose it.
Because we don’t want to occupy the Palestinians. We want security and the ability to defend ourselves indefinitely, but we don’t want to occupy them.
We want them to enjoy their rights as we enjoy ours. So perhaps, after a long process, we will eventually learn to live alongside one another with peace and respect.
So, a Palestinian state alongside Israel is the only solution?
In my mind. But, as I say, if someone can come up with a solution that’s acceptable to Palestinians and moderate Arabs that ends Israel’s occupation, I’m ready to listen. I don’t think it’s possible.
In my mind, there can be only one solution: a Palestinian state alongside the State of Israel; the complete control by Israel of our security, with some measure undertaken jointly and in cooperation, to build understanding and trust between us. But no occupation.
In Israel, speaking to people on the streets and monitoring social media, there is a growing trend of secular Israelis who reject the religious ideology of the far-right and of religious Zionism, but they see eye-to-eye with them politically. They have started calling for a Greater Israel, just like Ben Gvir and Smotritch do. Is this alarming to you?
I don’t know how many secular Jews in Israel are now becoming more and more right-wing. What I do know is that Israelis are angry with what the Palestinians did to us on 7 October.
The support that existed among some Israelis for a Palestinian state has diminished. We have to rebuild it, but this will take time. It’s not simple or easy. There are strong emotions over what happened. Israeli parents now have to send their children to Gaza to fight. Hundreds have been killed.
