UN’s top envoy for Syria: HTS actions could help reassess its terror designation

With Assad gone, he said the UN hoped that a political process in Syria could be facilitated and implemented that meets the needs and aspirations of the Syrian people, in contrast to Assad, who wanted to continue "as if Syrian society, the Syrian people, were not divided… The Syrian people were divided, and they wanted a change, a positive change, and he did not enable that."

UNSCR 2254 was adopted nine years ago with two core principles: that there should be a political transition in Syria that should be led and owned by the Syrian people themselves, and that Syria's sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity are protected. "That principle is still alive," said Pedersen. "But there has been a development on the ground since the resolution was adopted, so the big question becomes: how do we define HTS today?"

Involving everyone

Although HTS is listed as a terrorist organisation, the envoy said: "The good news is that doesn't stop us from talking to HTS. It's possible for us to have a dialogue. And I would like to emphasise that if they actually do what they say they want to do—have an inclusive process that brings together all communities in Syria, all parties in Syria—then I really do believe the time has come to look at that designation, because then the realities have changed."

In Jordan for a meeting of foreign ministers, Pedersen said he hoped to achieve "a unified message to the Syrian people—a message about hope for the future, but also about what is expected, so that there can be a meeting of minds between Damascus and the international community".

On speaking to HTS, he said: "The job of the United Nations is to talk to all parties, including HTS. That is not a taboo and we will continue that. There is now a caretaker government. We have three months to hopefully work with the Syrian parties to prepare for the transitional arrangements that meet the requirement that we have been discussing so far, and we are more than willing to reach out and discuss with all the Syrian parties in this situation."

Details were still being clarified, Pedersen said, but stressed the importance of "an inclusive governance structure" in Syria. After the three-month transition period recently announced by HTS, there is talk of a new constitution, but the diplomat was cautious. "What we need now to focus on is that these three months bring stability, bring inclusiveness, bring onboard all Syrians, and that we don't see new divisions."

For it to be "a credible, inclusive process," Pedersen said this meant involving "all Syrian communities, different parties, different armed factions, and building on that, they can create a consensus for how to move forward," adding: "That sounds simple, but governance is difficult. It is one thing to lead a military campaign for 14 days, but to sit and govern Damascus is a very different challenge."

Governance and economy

HTS has said it wants "to keep and preserve the institutions of the state, so they have appealed to civil servants who have been working with the previous government," adding: "That's a good sign." Yet he cautioned that there were some serious and immediate problems that any Syrian government would have to tackle. 

"Let's remember that the economy has collapsed, there are already 400,000 refugees who came back from Lebanon, thousands who want to come back, and internally displaced (people) who want to go back to their homes. If we are not able to fix the economy very quickly, this will be a huge, huge challenge. Therefore, it is so important that there is a good communication between the de facto authorities in Damascus and the international community, because there will be an enormous need for economic support and immediately for humanitarian support."

Asked about any possible reluctance from HTS to engage with the UN and Pedersen, the diplomat said HTS was "now governing, hopefully, the whole of Syria, and the whole of Syria is obviously a part of the international community—it has diplomatic representation, it is part of the UN. We are no forcing ourselves on the de facto authorities in Damascus. States work with the UN, we discuss what is needed."

He suggested that the UN had laid the groundwork in terms of contacting various Syrian factions "over many years", saying: "We have developed ideas together with Syrian parties and this is important. This is not something we will be forcing on the others, this has been in our dialogue with others, where we have many, many ideas for how we can move forward in the transitional period. We started discussing this from late 2015. So, I think we can be of help."

Immediate priorities

Pedersen explained that the UN has expertise and experience in three key areas that the new Syrian authorities will need: humanitarian assistance, "the question of accountability and justice", and refugees. "Here, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) has a critical role to play."

Asked whether the designation of HTS and its leaders as terrorists could hinder the delivery of assistance to Damascus, Pedersen said: "I think it's extremely important that we see a development that hopefully would lead to the lifting of HTS as a terrorist organisation. But we need to see that what they're saying is implemented on the ground.

"Then it is extremely important that this will be followed by the lifting of sanctions. If sanctions are not lifted, economic recovery in Syria may not be possible. For this, we need a common understanding, in particular, between the Europeans and the Americans on the way forward."

An intensely painful subject for many Syrians is the tens of thousands of missing people, many having been detained in regime prisons. "It's heart-breaking just to see the faces of those coming out," said Pedersen. "Some of the scenes are just not possible to describe. You know how you feel after watching this. You know the families, what they're feeling. 

"We mourn with all the families that so far have been unable to connect with their loved ones, or even know their fate. This is one of the huge tragedies of the Syrian conflict. It's been one of my key priorities from day one and is one of my biggest sadnesses that we've never really been able to move forward in a positive manner on that file. We have the newly established Independent Commission that will be looking into the file of the missing and that, I think, can hopefully be of great help to the authorities now in Damascus."

Truth and reconciliation

On the issues of accountability, justice, reconciliation, and truth-finding, Pedersen said the question was "how you get all of these things moving together in a manner that will give justice to the victims, but also contribute to healing the wounds after so many years of war and conflict and with this immense suffering".

Asked about Israel's destruction of Syrian assets, such as its naval fleet, Pedersen said: "It has to stop. It's a violation of the 1974 agreement, it's a violation of sovereignty, territorial integrity, and international law. It is extremely important at this stage that Syria's neighbours do not do anything that could further complicate the already difficult process of creating a transitional arrangement vital to bringing hope to the people of Syria. So really, we need to see these things stop."

An historian by background, Pedersen reflected on the seismic upheaval that has just been witnessed. "As one historical figure said, we are in a situation whereby what didn't happen for decades is now happening in weeks. It is difficult to clearly see where we are moving.

"Of course, there have been big changes in the region—Gaza, Lebanon, the dramatic weakening of Hezbollah, the fact that Iran no longer seems to have a presence in Syria, a weakening of Russia's position in Syria."

Unresolved issues

In reference to Syria's north-east, where most territory is controlled either by the Kurdish-majority Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which is backed by the US, or the Syrian National Army (SNA), which is backed by Turkey, Pedersen said: "There is obviously a conflict still going on, where we have Turkey, a NATO member, in potential conflict with United States, another NATO member. All this brings uncertainties."

He said neighbouring Arab states were following events closely but implied a regional consensus to avoid further bloodshed. "After 13 years of war and conflict with 6-7 million refugees leaving Syria for Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey, other Arab states, Europe, no reasonable international actor wants a repetition of this. So, I think now there is a wish to see stability in Syria. That's why I'm saying: let's not do anything that prevents us achieving that stability. It's a huge responsibility for Syrian parties and for the international community that we do not miss this opportunity for a new beginning for the Syrian people."

Events in Syria, Gaza, and Lebanon were "dramatic developments," he said. "Hopefully, we are now in a situation where Syria can play a positive role, not a negative role. If Syria can be stabilised, it will also have a positive impact on the rest of the region. That is what we are working on." 

Asked if he was shocked by the way Assad left the country, he said: "I found it shocking that there was no message, nothing to the people he governed for so many years. That's hard to understand." Pedersen also said previous regime figures would suddenly be capable of towing a different line—"a phenomenon we saw all over Eastern Europe".

He said: "I remember I was serving as a diplomat in East Germany immediately after the collapse of the Berlin Wall, in 1991, I was travelling a lot in the East. It was amazing to see how quickly these previously-loyal Communists turned into conservative, committed members of the Christian Democratic Union! I assure you: this is also happening in Syria. We need to look beyond that and see if there can be some real accountability, but also, real reconciliation."