Nasser Al-Huzeimi is a thinker who was witnessed the rise of Juhayman Al-Otaibi, and even approached him from within his group to the extent that he came to define the smallest details of his personality and mentality. He watched closely the establishment stages of the Salafist movement, and knew everything that went on in their secret meetings, in addition to how Juhayman became the leader of the group. Hence, what Al-Huzeimi reveals about the initiation of the group, its establishment and the idea of salvation, may not be known to many. Al-Huzeimi says that Juhayman avoided other groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Jamaat Al Tablighia (Conveying Groups). He also sheds light on Juhayman's relationship with Sheikh Ibn Baaz and Sheikh Al-Albani, his shift from public to secret activities and how the idea of storming the Holy Mosque (Al-Haram) came to mind. Al-Huzeimi also highlights the nature of the Saudi society at the time of Juhayman the impact of the economic situation.
The aforementioned assumption was not endorsed by social studies, but we note that Juhayman grew up in an urbanized area of the desert called Sager. Sager was one of the settlements of the Brotherhood that were established under the rule of King Abdul Aziz for housing nomads. These settlements were a center for teaching nomads religious sciences. Later on, Sager got involved in a battle against King Abdul Aziz in Sabala, and accordingly Juhayman was affected by the conflict, since Juhayman's father, Muhammed ben Saif had migrated to Sager earlier and thus involving Juhayman in the first generation of settlers.
However, Juhayman remained loyal to his tribe and Sager was just a place to live in. He never forgot that he belonged to the desert all throughout growing up. He was more a nomad than an urbanized person.
The Majalla: Was there a relationship between the urbanized desert area to which Juhayman belonged in Sager and the Brotherhood?
I was introduced to a lot of Ikhwanis by Juhayman in the 1970s who participated in robberies, which were of course of old. They told us in their meetings tales of the Brotherhood, Jihad and miracles of Ikhwanis during Jihad. They considered these tales as the second stage of Salaf tales including the conquests of Sahaba (Prophet Muhammed's companions) and the like. These tales were noticeable in their culture and deeply rooted in their mentality.
The Majalla: Did these tales affect their subconscious?
Yes, certainly these tales had a direct effect on them. Even in Juhayman's later acts and stances, we noticed that he took into consideration incidents that had happened to the Brotherhood earlier. For instance, when Juhayman was wanted by the Saudi security forces around 1398 A.H., he justified his escape and refusal to surrender himself based on his fear of meeting the same destiny faced by Ikhwanis before, like Sultan Bin Bijad and many others.
The Majalla: Juhayman worked in the National Guard, and joined the Islamic University. When did he start thinking of establishing the "Salafist Group”?
He founded the Salafist group by the year 1965 A.D. He was oscillating between Al Jamaat Al Tablighia and groups of almost semi-nomadic people from the old Ikhwanis who were still alive. He started his activities before 1965 A.D. After 1965, six men met together, the most prominent of them were Nasser ben Hussain, Sulaiman ben Shteiwi, Saad al-Tamimi and Juhayman Otaibi. They all agreed to establish the Salafist Group. Nearly two of them belonged to Al Jamaat Al Tablighia, one of whom, Suleiman Shteiwi, was a salafist who received learning at the feet of Sheikh Nasser Aldin Al-Albani and the other was Juhayman. Juhayman was still oscillating between the Salafist movement and Tablighi group. As we know, the Al Jamaat Al Tablighia do not focus on Tahweed (monotheism). This group rather focuses its preaching on renunciation, good manners and fair exhortation without any clashes with the authorities. The six men agreed. I only remember four of them because I forgot the names of two of them. But one of them might have died before he joined the group and the other one was excluded because he was a member in the Muslim Brotherhood. He wanted to deviate from the Salafist course of preaching and adopt the approach of Muslim Brotherhood. In brief, this group went to Sheikh Abdul Aziz ben Baaz who was then in Medina. They met him and told him that they wanted to establish a preaching group that would tread in the footsteps of the righteous predecessors, fight heresies in religion, and judge by the Holy Quran and the Prophet's Sunna.
Sheikh Abdul Aziz ben Baaz asked them about the name of this group and they answered him that they chose the name, "Salafist group".
He told them as long as they relied in their exhortation on God, they would call their group "God-Trusting Salafist Group". Thus, the group adopted that name from that time on. The name meant that the group expected to get rewarded by God alone for their actions. And so the group was publicly launched as an Islamic preaching group. The group's first headquarters was a house in the area of El-Hora El-Sharqyia, which Shaykh Ibn Baaz rented for them. It was a large house with a place for giving lectures and lessons (a courtyard), in addition to many other rooms. Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Baaz and some Sheikhs (religious leaders) from Medina attended these lessons, including Sheikh Abu Bakr El-Gaziaary. And so the group became one of the Salafist groups devoted solely to God. Its arguments were based entirely on the doctrine of the righteous predecessors and Sahih Hadiths (trusted sayings of the Prophet which have an authentic line of narrators up to the Prophet and free from anomalies or defects). They advocated a pure form of monotheism, and fought all kinds of heresies in religion. The group had its own Shura Council (consultative council), which would meet and discuss things in private without the knowledge of Bin Baaz and the other sheikhs.
The Majlla: How did Sheikh Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani influence the path of the group? Did he play a role in choosing the group's path?
The Salafist trend suggested by Sheikh Albani became an essential part of the Salafist concept of the group. It is a concept based on the rejection of sectarianism, the upholding of the right sayings of The Prophet, and the purification of the Sunnah (the sayings and living habits of The Prophet) from weak and wrong Hadiths. Thus, the right Salafi ideology and the Salafi way of understanding monotheism became the substantial equivalent which the group was compelled to embrace. Their concept of monotheism and faith was taken from the books of Salafist religious scholars, particularly those of Sheikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab, Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah, and Sheikh Ibn al-Qayyim. Their rejection of sectarianism and weak Hadiths, was probably taken from the writings of Sheikh Mohammed Nasser al-Albani, and his disciples. Hence, the group's concept of Salafism was based on a combination of the concepts of those two schools of thought.
The Majalla: The group started as a public group. When did they start their secret activities and begin recruiting followers?
The group started as a public group, because its rationale was based on reminding people of true Islam. At that time there was no prohibition, or any law that prevented the formation of any kind of Islamic groups, as long as theses groups did not affect the important issues of monotheism or form a threat to national security. As a result, there were various Islamic groups, as well as preachers who were known to be affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafist Group. Any underground work by the group was done on a very limited scale, such as meetings of the Shura Council.
The Majalla: How had these secret meetings evolved in the phase of mobilizing followers, especially at the end of 1970s? And how come there were a large number of young people from various parts of the Kingdom among the group's followers?
The group began with a small number of followers. Most of them were students at the Islamic University and scientific institutes. However, the group started to grow. Instead of having a single house in El-Hora El-Sharqyia, the group now had a second house: that of the Muslim Brotherhood in Mecca. Some of the members of the Muslim Brotherhood were living at that second house. They were mostly students at the Institute of Holy Mosque in Mecca. After that the Muslim Brotherhood house in Riyadh was founded. I remember that the justification for the establishment of the houses was to further expand the group. This was before 1398 A.H. The Muslim Brotherhood's first house was founded in Riyadh, and then they established a second house in Manfuha beside Alroehl mosque. A third house was established in Al-Qanam Street. To my knowledge, the Muslim Brotherhood now had three houses in Riyadh, one in Jeddah, and one in Taif. But the group continued to grow. It now had various supporters. Some of them even considered themselves as part of the Salafist Group, while others were devoted supporters. Also, at that time, by 1398 A.H/1979 A.D, the group managed to attract "many people", particularly from Al Jamaat Al Tablighia (Conveying Groups)
The Majalla: But when did those large numbers of followers start to join the group?
This happened after 1398 A.H/1979 A.D, following the first arrest conducted against the group. A false report was submitted to the authorities claiming that the group had an arsenal of weapons. Nevertheless, the State confirmed that the report was vexatious and untruthful.
The Majalla: Was it easy to join the group? Were there any kind of restrictions that prevented anyone from becoming a member?
The group had none of the restrictions found in other groups. It did not adopt the method of hierarchical ordering. To join the group, one only needed to be a scholar or a seeker of knowledge, and to obey its leader - Juhayman at that time. These were mostly the qualifications needed to join the group. But after Juhayman became wanted by the security authorities, the group became more careful in choosing the elements wishing to join it. Anyone from outside could join the group, but could not have access to many of the secrets of the group, such as the publications that were printed in Kuwait. Not many members in the group knew how these publications were printed, how they were smuggled in and out, or how Juhayman was contacted. Many of them did not know how to contact Juhayman, and who represented the linkage between them and Juhayman, and so on.
The Majalla: You said there were four founders. What was the status of the group from its beginning until Juhayman became the leader? What were his distinguishing qualities?
At the beginning Juhayman was not the leader of the group, yet the group went through several phases. At first Juhayman was on good terms with the four founders and the Shura Council, such as Ahmed Hassan al-Moallem and Sheikh Adil Mazrui and they all agreed on certain issues. But what happened was that Juhayman was the real leader of the group, although this was not declared, he was the most visible one of the four. He led the group in Hajj (pilgrimage to ). He drove his car to attend Zikr sessions (sessions of spiritual rites), which made him very popular. As soon as it was known that he was in the city, everybody started asking about him. On the contrary, no one for example, asked about Solomon El-Shetiwe, Saad Al-Tamimi, or Nasser Bin Hussein, everyone asked about Juhayman. After a period Juhayman took control of the group, in the sense that he began to put the group in difficult situations that often led to its being reprimanded or its preachers receiving negative comments on their speeches.
The Majalla: Is it possible to say that Juhayman had a tendency from the very beginning to become the leader of the group?
Yes, of course. Juhayman was the informal leader. He sought to become the actual leader. He named himself the leader of the group, took leadership of the group and, he very well deserved to be so. He always made initiatives, moved a lot, and devoted all his time to the group, unlike, for example, the remaining three founders mentioned earlier. These three were teachers and had little time to spend in preaching for Islam. At that time, people only had a holiday on Friday, and the only spare time they had was during summer vacation. This highlights the difference between a man who devoted himself to the cause during the entire year, and a group of people who were busy doing their job.
The Majalla: The first clash between the Salafist group and security forces occurred in 1398 A.H. What was the nature of this clash, and how did it happen?
Actually, there was no clash, but a series of arrests that included the group's prominent figures in all places, and then Juhayman fled.
The Majalla: What was the cause of the arrests?
It was a vexatious report, and we heard at the time that the man who wrote it was reprimanded because he mentioned that this group had stores full of weapons.
The Majalla: Let's move on to the main idea that was adopted by Juhayman for his movement, and that is the seizure of the Holy Mosque in Mecca. Who was the source of this idea at the beginning? And how did the idea of seizing the Holy Mosque occur to the Salafist group?
The case of entering the Holy Mosque in Mecca is originally linked to the expected Mahdi issue. They entered the Mosque because they had a scenario for the course of the group, after swearing allegiance to Mohammed Abdullah Al-Mahdi (Muhammad Abdullah Al Qahtani).
They adopted the scenario from the apocalyptic books of Dissentions and Signs of Doomsday. This scenario states that "The man swears allegiance at the corner of the Mosque, and this man performs a sit-in there and then an army comes from Tabuk only to be destroyed. Then this man comes out of the Holy Mosque, travels to Medina and fights the Antichrist.”
Later on, he leaves Medina and travels to Palestine and fights the Jews there and kills them. Jesus Christ then comes back to break the cross and kill the swine. Afterwards, they will go to Syria and pray at the Umayyad Mosque and then Doomsday will occur.
This is the scenario of the group according to the books of Dissentions and Signs of Doomsday.
But three days later, it became clear that Al-Mahdi was killed in the Holy Mosque. Juhayman also refused to believe that Mahdi was killed, and refused to declare that Mahdi was killed. He forced the group to deny his killing, boycotted them and poured his wrath on those who said Mahdi was killed.
He also said that Mahdi could not be killed, but he was only surrounded at the Holy Mosque and would eventually come out. Of course this was an illogical vision, and almost occurred to them because of their obsession with the idea of salvation through the Mahdi.
The Majalla: We can say that the group was primarily obsessed, controlled and motivated by a metaphysical idea of salvation, non-existant in reality but was derived from books of dissentions, legends and metaphysical thoughts. They tried to translate these thoughts into reality, didn't they?
This is an accurate diagnosis and in fact true because this group originally did not have a project for an Islamic state, as we find in groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood or the Liberation Party. This group had the issue of Mahdi rooted in their mentalities; they followed the doctrine that reiterates that the nation's salvation would be through Al-Mahdi, not by establishing a state.
The Majalla: You were not among those who entered the Holy Mosque in Mecca although you were with the Salafist group?
Six months before the incident of storming in the Holy Mosque and swearing allegiance to Mahdi, the group split; one group was not convinced that Mohammed Abdullah Al-Qahtani was the Mahdi and did not also believe in carrying arms inside the Holy Mosque, and I was among this group which was not convinced of entering the Mosque.
The Majalla: This means that the idea emerged 6 months before storming the Holy mosque?
The idea of Mohammed Abdullah Al-Qahtani was discussed one year before breaking into the Holy Mosque. It was based on the belief of some that Mohammed Abdullah Al-Qahtani was the expected Mahdi, because his name was Mohammed Abdullah Al Qahtani, it matched the characteristics mentioned in the religious texts. The texts say that his name and his father's name must match those of Prophet Muhamed (PBUH). He also had a short nose and a tight forehead and was a descendant of the Prophet's family. Based on these features, it was said that Mohammed Abdullah Al-Qahtani was the Mahdi. Things continued like this and 6 months before their breaking into the Holy Mosque a rebellion happened. As a result, we announced that we did not believe in the Mahdi cause.
The Majalla: Speaking about the Islamic groups and movements, you mentioned earlier in your speech that there was a man from the Muslim Brotherhood who withdrew from founding this group. What is the relationship between the Salafist group and other Islamic movements like the Muslim Brotherhood, the Jamaat Al Tablighia and Islamic movements?
In his letter "Removing the Confusion", Juhayman tried to diagnose his attitude towards these groups, and found it relatively naïve. He opposed the Muslim Brotherhood because of their interest in politics, and blamed the missionary group because of their lack of interest in preaching for monotheism. The same goes for their vision of other groups.
They criticize the Muslim Brotherhood for keeping a low-profile but the truth is that their secrecy is almost the same as that of the Salafist Group.
The Majalla: After this analysis, was Juhayman a rebellious personality, a religious utopian or was he both?
Juhayman almost had the two qualities, the rebellious and the utopian character. Juhayman acted with a retaliatory vision, influenced by what had happened to the Brotherhood in Sebla. By the way, he often repeated that the Muslim Brotherhood members who were at Sebla were wrongfully killed and considered them martyrs. This was his vision and he often repeated it. So I believe that Juhayman developed the revolutionary and revengeful attitude earlier, but he needed a legitimate reason for the group to accept it.
The Majalla: But what was the attitude of Juhayman towards the society he lived in, and towards the state? Did he accuse it of apostasy, did he cope with it, or did he live isolated?
Of course Juhayman did not reconcile with his society for several reasons: his character was originally nomadic; society in general was moving towards civilization while the nomadic character of Juhayman opposed this aspect. Moreover, Juhayman saw that this society was showing signs that Doomsday was looming. Juhayman believed that dissentions overwhelmed the whole society. Juhayman specified the types of seditions in the Letter of Dissention and Signs of Doomsday: banknotes which resemble photos, television, etc. These dissentions were widespread and accordingly he developed a negative attitude towards this issue both at the levels of society and state. In addition, Juhayman opposed working for the government and believed a governmental job would prevent you from saying the truth. He believed that as long as one took a salary from the state, one wouldn't not be able confront it with the truth.
The Majalla: Is it possible to say that Juhayman was an intellectual extension of the nomadic group of Brothers in God's Obedience? Or did he follow a different path?
Juhayman was almost an intellectual extension of this group, with some additions. If you read the literature of the Muslim Brotherhood in cases of monotheism and faith, you will find it the same literature of the group of Brothers in God's obedience, but with the addition of new issues. These issues included the Prophet's traditions, and repudiating sectarianism.
The Majalla: Some people try to link Juhayman’s movement and modern extremist groups that have emerged recently along with Jihadist tides. They also say that Juhayman’s movement paved the way for these recent movements.
In general, we can not say that recent groups are an extension of Juhayman’s thought for several reasons. The most important one is that Juhayman's thought is based on spiritual salvation and does not have a project for establishing a state. If you look at Juhayman's letters, you will find him talking about the Mahdi establishment of the state of justice, but where are the details?
There are not any, unlike the case of current groups such as al Qaeda, they talk about establishing a state and the stages they would go through. They create chaos to force the other side to recognize their right to establish a state.
However, they do not have a project for this state. I do not believe that the current groups, especially the jihadist or extremist ones are similar to the Juhayman group. I always say that Juhayman's influence on the groups that followed him was a temporary one.
The Majalla: After arresting and killing Juhayman, are there any people who still believe in the idea of salvation? Or did it end with the demise of Juhayman?
The idea of salvation in general had ended as soon as Al-Mahdi was assassinated. But some people are fanatic in their belief in Mahdi. Two of them were with us in the group and until now we mock them because they believed Mahdi was not killed but managed to escape and lives in the mountains of Yemen. But this talk has become naive, especially after the incident at the Holy Mosque.
The Majalla: What do you think of the incident of attacking the Holy Mosque?
There was a global rejection of this incident because it happened in the most sacred place for Muslims. The incident occurred in the sacred month of Muharram, in the sacred city of Mecca, and resulted in the shedding of Muslim blood.
The incident was so hideous that everyone condemned it. Even most of the Islamic sects refused these acts. No Islamic group issued a statement to support the attack against the Holy Mosque.
